Hundreds of postmasters who may have used the Capture IT system and experienced shortfalls are being asked to come forward so compensation can be awarded.
Capture was used in branches from 1992 onwards, with various versions and upgrades, until 1999.
Solicitor Neil Hudgell, who represents victims of the Post Office Scandal, says those affected are being asked to get in touch to help rebuild their lives.
Video Transcript: Post Office Capture Compensation
Welcome to Righting Wrongs here at Hudgell Solicitors. I’m Keith Phillips, and with me is Neil Hudgell, executive chairman, who represents hundreds of victims of the Post Office Scandal.
Neil, we’re here to delve a little deeper into exactly what’s going on with the various compensation schemes.
Neil, we know hundreds of Subpostmasters fell victim to the Horizon IT system where innocent people were blamed for cash shortfalls. That’s long been established, but now there’s increasing evidence that the IT system used before Horizon was also faulty.
Yeah, that’s Capture and variations of Capture. You say, there’s increasing evidence, but I think there’s actually compelling evidence. You know, there’s been an independent report prepared by Kroll.
It’s been with the government for a while. We represent an increasing number of Capture victims. We’ve met with the government. We have victims that were both convicted and not convicted and therefore there needs to be a formal recognition that this is to be viewed in the same light as a Horizon, and then there needs to be a work-through process of how those victims are going to be exonerated and compensated.
Now, There’s a particular timeframe for Capture, isn’t there?
I mean that if anyone is doubtful about whether they were affected by Capture, there were certain years that it was in use.
Good question, and the answer to that is slightly vague because there are moving dates and as you might appreciate going back 25 years plus, the available evidence is limited.
Post Offices don’t have much, and many of the victims don’t have much. One or two victims have a lot, and that evidence has actually been critical to the report that Kroll prepared.
So we’re talking between the sort of early nineties and 1999, 2000. As I said, it’s not just Capture there are other versions of Capture. There’s this system, Ecco+ that’s also now been mentioned, and so again, if someone feels that there have been shortfalls that have derived from the use of an IT-based system, they should shout out for advice.
Do we know how many people may have been affected or prosecuted in the Capture system?
Conservative guesses are into the hundreds, but as you would appreciate with an ageing demographic there would likely be more people who are no longer with us.
Evidence is less reliable, and so it’s again, a question of speculation and that obviously in turn impacts how government are going to deal with this from an evidential perspective.
Do we know how many people may have already come forward to say that they were affected by the Capture system?
Well, we’re getting significant numbers and when I say significant, we’re over 60 at the minute, and well, I think one’s significant if it’s a miscarriage of justice, but you know, we’re talking dozens.
I would imagine that would mean that if you sort of roll that out, you’re probably several hundred, but I don’t have any official insider knowledge from the government as to how many claims or potential claims have been advanced.
The clients that you represent who are affected by Capture, what is their typical experience then?
Is it the same as Horizon? Yeah, It’s no different. I think again, the effects and impacts are the same. I think, as I said, they’re an ageing demographic, so if anything, they’re more worried, they’re more frustrated. They’re more deeply affected because it’s been with them for longer, and they’re more impatient for an outcome and a satisfactory solution, and I get all that.
I agree with all that, and that’s why, you know, we’re campaigning hard for the government to put in place remedial steps sooner rather than later.
And if they were affected by the Capture system, what would they be compensated for?
Same things as a Horizon. So if they were convicted and imprisoned, all the losses that fall from that in the same way, if they weren’t convicted but lost their job or just suffered Horizon losses getting compensated for that. Remember that compensation is to be assessed on the basis of putting somebody back in the position that would’ve been, had the wrong not been done in the first place.
In the same way, as if you were a victim of the Horizon IT system, and perhaps, you’ve passed away family realize that they were prosecuted.
Can they claim on their behalf?
Yes.
The same under the Capture system.
Same principles, yeah, as long as you can establish that you’re next to KIN or someone that’s passed away, then those rights are passed to you.
And just picking up on where the government are with the Capture system, there is no pathway yet set up for Exoneration?
No, There’s no pathway yet.
I think, again, as I said, there were two aspects to this. There are the people that were convicted and those that weren’t.
So the parallel is obviously the overtime conviction scheme and an equivalent of the Horizon shortfall scheme. That’s what we’re looking at in terms of the overturned convictions. The convicted people, we’re looking at submitting cases to the CCRC at the moment, the Criminal Cases Review Commission, that’s an ongoing process. Our expectation is that we would anticipate a process of referral to the Court of Appeal, subject to passing the minimum threshold for that at some point.
The wider work around compensation is something that is obviously very central to government thinking at the minute, so we’re awaiting the next steps. How quick that fix is, I’m not sure.
But you are confident that anyone affected under the Capture system will be compensated?
Should be compensated. You know, nothing is a given, until there’s something there, but I would be surprised given what we know, particularly from the evidence gathered from clients and interpreted by Kroll, the Independent IT consultants, demonstrate the problems were there with the system that it would take some manoeuvring to differentiate between Horizon on the one hand and Capture on the other.
Neil, thank you very much and thank you for listening to Righting Wrongs.
